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 Trip suggestions for first winter summit 
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
BrianL wrote:
thegibba wrote:
The OP seemed to be thankful.


For what? He still has the same plan he started with. Doesn't say much for the advice he got.

thegibba wrote:
His weekend plans stand to be pretty good. Saturday looks like junk though.


Perhaps the advice he got was what he was looking for. Maybe his plan was exactly what he wanted to do and just wanted to know what others thought of it. Why should he change his plans based on anything any of us tell him? There's no point in arguing it, only he knows what he was after and why he chose it in the end.

BrianL wrote:
The MWOBS only goes two days out, but I did find this

http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Mount-Lafayette/forecasts/1000

Have folks found that site to be reliable?


Ask someone who's looking at it for the first time. That's probably your best bet for an accurate assessment of their forecasts. My opinion is jaded from the number of incorrect forecasts I have gotten over the years.

BrianL wrote:
If you do decide that Pierce/Jackson is your combo, I'd recommend adding a couple extra miles and grabbing Webster while you're there. It's not a 4k, and it's summit is probably comparable to Tecumseh.


I'll cover that with a link to my report from there. He hasn't been yet so his advice is valid, and I'm not trying to one up Brian's opinion of how boring and Tecumseh-like the summit is, but just because it's easier than rehashing something I've already covered in depth here's a look. http://forum.hike-nh.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8898

If the OP or anyone else is ever looking for "fun" hikes my opinion is, and always has been, that the 48 isn't necessarily where to go for a list one should follow. It is not where I draw from when picking a hike like that, not that my opinion is worth anything. It contains the highest summits obviously and I do think everyone should hike them all once, but fully half of them are far far from the best in NH. Everyone wants to do the 48 because they are the tallest, but if looking for straight up fun hikes the 52WAV Brian mentioned probably has more of them. Give me Monadnock, Chocorua, Cardigain, the Baldfaces, Moats, Webster etc etc etc any day of the week over the likes of Hale, Waumbek, Tecumseh, Galehead, South Carter and those type of peaks. Especially so for a challenge in winter when their expansive open ledges and ridges are covered in snow and ice. I know I know, I'm being condescending by suggesting shorter summits, but in my defense those hikes will test you a lot more than 75% of the 48 will in winter when they are nothing more than over-used, tramped out sidewalks of snow. They blow the doors of those ho-hum higher summits for rocky, icy, straight up fun.


Last edited by Granite Guy on Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:56 pm
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
Granite Guy wrote:
Perhaps the advice he got was what he was looking for. Maybe his plan was exactly what he wanted to do and just wanted to know what others thought of it. Why should he change his plans based on anything any of us tell him? There's no point in arguing it, only he knows what he was after and why he chose it in the end.


Well, if you believe the consensus here, he's taking an unreasonable risk, or possibly even acting negligently by not choosing the shortest mountain first. So I hope the OP is aware that he should have his checkbook ready if he gets stuck somewhere.

Granite Guy wrote:
Ask someone who's looking at it for the first time.


I think I did. I'm sorry, perhaps you're confused. When I said "folks", I wasn't just talking to the host of the GraniteGuy show, I was also addressing the studio audience.

Did your ego really convince you that I was talking just to you? You should get that inferiority complex checked out.

If you don't know the answer, you don't have to say anything.

RE: Webster
Granite Guy wrote:
I'll cover that with a link to my report from there. He hasn't been yet so his advice is valid,


Actually, I have been to Webster. I didn't feel it was worth seeking a cyber high-five from my computer buddies, so I didn't post any pictures of the dirt I walked on. The OP should know that your being slightly misleading with your link to the trip report. Looks like the best parts of that hike were A) the foliage, which is gone now and B) the outlooks along the Webster Cliff Trail. However, the OP has stated he's looking for 4k's, and preferably multiple 4k's at once, which pretty much eliminates the WCT from contention.

Realistically, the OP would access it from Jackson and then head back down northwards towards the Highland Center. That adds just over a mile, and results in some tecumseh-like views from Webster's 180 degree summit looking into Crawford Notch, and that's about it. So your advice would be good for a return trip, but I would argue that there are lots of other peaks, with similar views of the notch that are on lists, and making a separate trip just for Webster would pretty much be a rerun.

If he takes my advice, he adds about 1.1 miles of pretty easy hiking and gets to check another box

Granite Guy wrote:
If the OP or anyone else is ever looking for "fun" hikes my opinion is, and always has been, that the 48 isn't necessarily where to go for a list one should follow.


I'm not saying this to be combative here. I think I understand your contempt for list-based hiking, the reasons seem valid, and I realize you're not the only one who feels that way. However, if you're at all interested in a newcomer's perspective, here's my experience with following "the list".

If I didn't discover the 48, I'd probably just hike monadnock a zillion times over because it's awesome, and close by. So the 48 forced me to go to new places, eat at new restaurants, stay in new hotels (+1 for the North Conway Marriot), and see the landscape from points-of-view that I wouldn't otherwise view.

I remember taking in the view from Tecumseh and not having much of an idea what i was looking at. Now, that i've been to a few places, I can look out and recognize, by name, many of the peaks I'm looking at. More importantly, looking at the ones that I've been to triggers memories of the hikes I had in those places. Admittedly, I've only done 1/6th of the list, and I'm not as good at "name that peak" as others. But I can definitely feel my hiking experience "accumulate". Every new peak I go to makes the previous hikes, AND subsequent hikes better. It's not really a tangible thing, but that "cumulative effect" has a value. Just one man's opinion.


Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:36 pm
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
Hotels? Where so you live? PA? Real men wake up at 2 am and drive 4 hours out and back and hike for 10 hours


Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:23 pm
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
thegibba wrote:
Hotels? Where so you live? PA? Real men wake up at 2 am and drive 4 hours out and back and hike for 10 hours


I'd rather eat rocks

Give me clean sheets and free breakfast. And nothing beats a spa pedicure after a day in hiking boots,

BTW, I know my political views are unpopular here, but you should know that the platform for my 2032 presidential bid includes a plan to create a commission to develop a less feminine word for pedicure.

The term "Foot job" is already taken :( and that's the only idea I've come up with

Vote Brian


Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:35 pm
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
BrianL wrote:
I'm not saying this to be combative here.


I can stick with that if you can. Let's keep it civil and here's what I have to say.

BrianL wrote:
Well, if you believe the consensus here, he's taking an unreasonable risk, or possibly even acting negligently by not choosing the shortest mountain first.


I don't believe that. You know that by now, so stop trying to pin it on me.

BrianL wrote:
the OP has stated he's looking for 4k's, and preferably multiple 4k's at once, which pretty much eliminates the WCT from contention.

Realistically, the OP would access it from Jackson and then head back down northwards towards the Highland Center. That adds just over a mile, and results in some tecumseh-like views from Webster's 180 degree summit looking into Crawford Notch, and that's about it. So your advice would be good for a return trip, but I would argue that there are lots of other peaks, with similar views of the notch that are on lists, and making a separate trip just for Webster would pretty much be a rerun.

If he takes my advice, he adds about 1.1 miles of pretty easy hiking and gets to check another box.


We can agree to disagree on the views. These are from the summit. I don't find staring straight down 2000 feet to the notch and having the Presis looming to the north very Tecumseh-like. Just my opinion.

Image

Image

Image

Not being confrontational, but isn't that advice is exactly the baby steps you have been railing against? If he's looking for 4K's with a higher fun factor Take the WC Trail up then bag Jackson and Pierce and finish the hike I linked or alternatively do a bike spot or car spot with a buddy back to the beginning. The ride from the top of the notch to the WC Trailhead on a bike is sure to increase the fun factor being almost all downhill. 2 4K's, a 52WAV, no training wheels. We skipped Pierce because we've been there and honestly don't think much of it, but if it's a peak-bagging mission it wouldn't add on much at all to that hike.

BrianL wrote:
I'm not saying this to be combative here. I think I understand your contempt for list-based hiking, the reasons seem valid, and I realize you're not the only one who feels that way. However, if you're at all interested in a newcomer's perspective, here's my experience with following "the list".

If I didn't discover the 48, I'd probably just hike monadnock a zillion times over because it's awesome, and close by. So the 48 forced me to go to new places, eat at new restaurants, stay in new hotels (+1 for the North Conway Marriot), and see the landscape from points-of-view that I wouldn't otherwise view.

I remember taking in the view from Tecumseh and not having much of an idea what i was looking at. Now, that i've been to a few places, I can look out and recognize, by name, many of the peaks I'm looking at. More importantly, looking at the ones that I've been to triggers memories of the hikes I had in those places. Admittedly, I've only done 1/6th of the list, and I'm not as good at "name that peak" as others. But I can definitely feel my hiking experience "accumulate". Every new peak I go to makes the previous hikes, AND subsequent hikes better. It's not really a tangible thing, but that "cumulative effect" has a value. Just one man's opinion.


I agree with that. I think everyone should hike everywhere once. New places. New experiences. New is good. It's not contempt for the list based hiking, because I use lists all the time, it really what the 48 specifically has become in general. Too many people (I think you will agree) feel they are the hardest or best hikes out there simply because they are the highest 48 bumps of land (if you go by the AMC's criteria for what makes a summit "official") and think it's some super human feat to climb them. The only thing that makes them occasionally challenging for an average Joe in half decent shape is conditions IMO. Too many people miss out on the larger and often more fun and challenging smaller peaks or other areas because they don't hit the magic 4000 foot topo line. It's a damn shame if you ask me, but really, it's nobody's business but theirs. Many are perfectly happy repeating the same summits over and over and more power to them. I think they are missing out but nobody cares what I think. As you have noted I hike everywhere I can as often as I can, the "cumulative effect" you mention is very real for me. Each hike enhances the last and makes me excited for the next. I personally wouldn't get that same feeling if I gridded the 48 or repeated hikes frequently for whatever reason, but good for those who do. I share a lot in hopes others will enjoy the reports and pics and maybe see something they haven't that is interesting and visit it themselves sometimes. Not because I think it's better than where they go, just because it's often different than much of what I see posted. That's where hike your own hike comes in. Not everyone wants a huge challenge. Not everyone cares what's over the next mountain. Not everyone can stand a long drive. We all like what we like, but that doesn't make what the other people like wrong.


Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:44 pm
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
Granite Guy wrote:
I don't believe that. You know that by now, so stop trying to pin it on me.


Easy buddy, nobody is trying to pin anything on you. Well all know you didn't say the T-word. Just remember, you're not the only person here, despite how it seems sometimes.

Granite Guy wrote:
We can agree to disagree on the views. These are from the summit. I don't find staring straight down 2000 feet to the notch and having the Presis looming to the north very Tecumseh-like. Just my opinion.


Meh, that's a hair-splitting game I'm not interested in playing. I thought my sentiments were obvious, but let me clarify. Yes, Crawford Notch and Waterville Valley are two different places. You are correct about that. However, you must admit that the summits of Tecumseh and Webster share some things in common. I don't remember W's exact height but it's within 20 feet of Tecumseh, I'm sure. Small rocky summits with 180 degree outlook. The view itself isn't really a factor in my opinion, because you're going to Jackson and Pierce anyway.

My only point is that you probably won't want to make a separate trip for Webster, if you can just bag it with Jackson. If he's doing list-based hiking, then he's coming back for Tom, Field, Willey, Avalon, Willard, and whatever else is there. I don't think Webster offers enough of a unique enough perspective to warrant a separate trip. On that I think we agree.

Granite Guy wrote:
Not being confrontational, but isn't that advice is exactly the baby steps you have been railing against?


Huh? I'm advocating more peaks in fewer hikes. How is that baby steps? In fact, we're both advocating that. My way is a 9ish mile loop. Yours is a 12 mile traverse with a 5 mile bike ride. And the only difference would be that you trade the Bugle Cliff and Elephant Head outlooks for the outlooks along the Webster Cliff Trail. I guess that's an OK suggestion, but it still leaves me wondering how you guys are able to change what time the sun sets.

It's 9am on Friday, so if the OP is reading this and wants to take GG's advice for Saturday, he needs to go to sleep NOW. Starting from Brighton you're gonna need to be on the road pretty god damn early.


Granite Guy wrote:
Too many people (I think you will agree) feel they are the hardest or best hikes out there simply because they are the highest 48 bumps of land


Just my two cents.....elevation, trumps everything. My favorite part of hiking is being able to see huge expansive sections of the earth all at once. That's why I like Monadnock.....you can see so god damn far....it's the only place I've been where I've actually felt like I'm riding through space on a planet. And....now I guess I have to correct myself a bit. Sometimes extreme prominence can trump elevation. But the point is, the farther you can see, the more fun the hike. And the higher up you are, the farther you can see.


Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:05 am
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
BrianL wrote:
Granite Guy wrote:
you must admit that the summits of Tecumseh and Webster share some things in common. I don't remember W's exact height but it's within 20 feet of Tecumseh, I'm sure. Small rocky summits with 180 degree outlook. The view itself isn't really a factor in my opinion, because you're going to Jackson and Pierce anyway.

My only point is that you probably won't want to make a separate trip for Webster, if you can just bag it with Jackson. If he's doing list-based hiking, then he's coming back for Tom, Field, Willey, Avalon, Willard, and whatever else is there. I don't think Webster offers enough of a unique enough perspective to warrant a separate trip. On that I think we agree.


We don't agree. Whatever you think of the summit, Webster has one exciting, fun way up and one snooze-fest bunny slope route. The WC trail is absolutely worth a separate trip by itself, but more so if you add on Jackson, and Pierce if you like, and then exit through the wilderness.

BrianL wrote:
Huh? I'm advocating more peaks in fewer hikes. How is that baby steps? In fact, we're both advocating that. My way is a 9ish mile loop. Yours is a 12 mile traverse with a 5 mile bike ride. And the only difference would be that you trade the Bugle Cliff and Elephant Head outlooks for the outlooks along the Webster Cliff Trail. I guess that's an OK suggestion, but it still leaves me wondering how you guys are able to change what time the sun sets.


The bike ride wouldnt be my first choice. The way I went would be. I wouldn't reccomend either in winter. But, in general, your 9 mile loop hits three of those 180 degree half treed-in summits you say you don't enjoy and 8.9999 miles of boring, training wheeled, bunny slope, tree covered sidewalks. I thought we were recommending bigger, more adventurous and exciting routes here?? The sunset part is easy, you turn on the headlamp when it goes down and walk out of the woods. I think anyone can handle that. Moonlit snow covered woods with a headlamp are almost as bright as day.

BrianL wrote:
It's 9am on Friday, so if the OP is reading this and wants to take GG's advice for Saturday, he needs to go to sleep NOW. Starting from Brighton you're gonna need to be on the road pretty god damn early


Well, thegibba starts most of his days from Lynn and managed that hike. The amount of daylight in October was similar to what it is now, so if your goal is to get in as spectacular and most fun of a hike as possible it can be done easily enough.

Also, if elevation is your ultimate trump card best of luck with the 48. The majority of the summits are either fully wooded, have a directional view or at best have those 180 degree Webster type views. The only ones you'll feel that wide open on top of the world thing you are after are Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Eisenhower, Lafayette, Lincoln, Moosilauke (if a hayfield can make you feel that way) the Bonds, South Twin, Garfield, Cannon, Liberty and Carrigain. So, maybe a third of the list?? The rest, no matter how high, can't top those other peaks I listed, or many other shorter mountains, for far reaching top of the world views. Just my opinion.


Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:00 am
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 Re: Trip suggestions for first winter summit
I think this thread is played out guys, I'm going to lock it down.

Everyone please remember to be respectful of others and their opinions on Hike-NH.com We've had a (mostly) very cordial exchange on this forum for many years, and I would like to keep it that way.

Thanks,
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:25 am
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