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 mt carrigan 
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Hiking Forums Are My Crack
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Granite Guy wrote:
I didn't realize that they had changed the regs either. Might come in handy to know at some point.

Without knowing where Joes mystery site is it could still be legal. I don't even know if LNT was ever actually a rule/law or just an ethics guideline. I always thought it was the latter.


It is a gray area for sure. I copied these few lines from WMNF/wilderness section.

Wilderness Regulations

Wilderness has special regulations intended to keep these areas wild and to reduce human impact. The following apply in all WMNF designated Wilderness:
•No mechanized equipment or mechanical transport (including bicycles, carts, and wagons. Wheelchairs are allowed.)
•Hiking and camping group size must be limited to 10 people or less.
•Geocaching is prohibited.

Additional regulations apply to specific Wildernesses. Follow the links at left for more detailed information.

Since no amount of regulation can prevent each of us from affecting the land, we encourage you to follow Leave No Trace ethics anytime you visit backcountry or Wilderness.

******************************************************************************************************************

Now while it's clearly listed under "Wilderness Regulations", the wording just says that they encourage you to follow Leave No Trace, ethics.

I guess regulations are different than rules. :roll:

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Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:33 am
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Sovereign Woodsman
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The spot I am referring to on Carrigain is NOT in the Pemi Wilderness. Walrus' link is no good (404).

Tim

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Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:09 pm
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original link works OK for me ...

when I quoted his link I included (... ) characters, perhaps you clicked on the url I quoted (since edited to remove the offending ... )

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Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:52 pm
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scooter wrote:

JustJoe wrote:
But as you can clearly see does not meet the "leave no trace".

That picture looks like one of those 'how many things can you find wrong with this picture' puzzles :roll:


That picture may be a bad example. As that site is decorated with logging camp artifacts. Which I believe are illegal to remove. :wink:

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Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:07 pm
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Mountain Maestro
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bikehikeskifish wrote:
The spot I am referring to on Carrigain is NOT in the Pemi Wilderness. Walrus' link is no good (404).

Tim



Just check the wmnf site if you can't get to the pdf from the links. Basic gist: No 200 foot rule, sites are heavily impacted. If the trees are more than 8 feet tall the guidelines say that they are legal and should be used. Hell, I can't find anything saying that you can't camp out on the observation deck itself. When I was up there I saw a rather elaborate fire pit and sites on the summit for a bivy or small tent maybe 30 feet from the tower on the side opposite SR trail.


Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:06 pm
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It worked for me, although the first part was upside-down. :? :?: Here's most of the important stuff.

Anyways like he said the 200 foot rule seems to be out the window universally. And as far as I can tell from these rules the tower itself would be fair game. Wierd. Personally I liked the 200 foot rule. Very black and white.

"TRAVEL AND CAMP ON
DURABLE SURFACES
Stay on the trail while hiking. Camp
at sites that have already been heavily
impacted (but be sure it’s a legal site),
or 200 feet from trails and water
sources. Avoid moderately impacted
sites where your visit could create
more damage."

No Camping, Wood or Charcoal
Fires within 1/4 mile of the
following except at designated
sites:
• Any hut, shelter, developed tent site, cabin,
picnic area, developed day use site, or
campground
• Any trailhead
The following special areas:
• Zeta Pass
The following bodies of water:
• Champney Falls
• Diana’s Bath
• East Branch of the Pemigewasset River from
the Kancamagus Highway (Rte. 112) to
Franconia Brook, including islands
• East Pond
• Kiah Pond
• Long Pond, including islands
• Sabbaday Falls
• Sawyer Ponds — Big and Little (except at
shelter and tent platforms)
• Thoreau Falls
• Unknown Pond
The following roads:
• Base Station Road (FR 173)
• Bear Notch Road (FR 26)
• Beebe River Road (FR 400)
• Breezy Point Road (FR 186)
• Dugway Road (FR 60) from the picnic area
to the Kancamagus Highway
• Haystack Road (FR 304) from Rte. 3 to the
North Twin Trailhead
• Jefferson Notch Road (FR 220) from the
Base Station to the Caps Ridge trailhead
• Kancamagus Highway (Rte. 112) from the
junction with Rte. 302, Bath, NH, to the
junction with Rte. 16, Conway, NH
• Kiah Pond Road (FR 418)
• Lower Hall Pond Road (FR 417)
• Mad River Road (Rte. 49)
• Old Cherry Mountain Road (FR 14)
• Pinkham B. Road (FR 207)
• Rocky Branch Road (FR 27) where it passes
through the National Forest
• Rte. 16 from the junction with Rte. 2 in
Gorham, NH, to the junction with Rte. 16
in Glen, NH
• Rte. 302 from the junction with Rte. 16 in
Glen, NH, to the junction with Rte. 3 in
Twin Mtn. NH
• Sawyer River Road (FR 34)
• Gale River North and South Gale River
Road (FR 25 and FR 92)
• Sandwich Notch Road (FR 98) where it
passes through the National Forest
• Stillings Road (FR 506) where it passes
through the National Forest
• Stinson Lake Road (FR 113) where it crosses
Brown Brook
• Tunnel Brook Road (FR 700) from the
junction with Rte. 112 to the end of the road
• Upper Hall Pond Road (FR 422)
• White Ledge Road (FR 369) where it passes
through the National Forest
• Wild River Road (FR 12)
• Zealand Road (FR 16)
NOTE: Violating these restrictions is
punishable by a fine pursuant to: 16
USC 551
No Camping, Wood or Charcoal
Fires within 200 feet of:
The following bodies of water:
• Black Pond
• Black Mountain Pond
• East Branch of the Pemigewasset River from
the Wilderness boundary to its crossing with
Thoreau Falls Trail, including islands
• The stream along the Smart’s Brook Trail
from Rte. 49 to the log landing
The following trails:
• Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail
• Appalachian Trail corridor from the summit
of Mt. Moosilauke to the Connecticut River
(except at shelters)
• Intersection of Cedar Brook and Hancock
Notch Trails to the junction with Hancock
Loop Trail
• Champney Falls Trail from the trailhead to
Champney Falls
• Falling Waters Trail
• Franconia Falls Trail
• Liberty Springs Trail
• Lower Falls Trail
• Old Bridle Path
• Valley Way from its intersection with the
Scar Trail to Madison Hut
• Wild River Trail from Wild River
Campground to 1 mile south
The following restrictions apply to
these areas:
• Bartlett Experimental Forest (No camping)
• Research Natural Areas (No wood or
charcoal fires)
• Candidate Research Natural Areas (No wood
or charcoal fires)
• Greeley Ponds Scenic Area (No camping,
wood or charcoal fires)
• Rocky Gorge Scenic Area (No camping,
wood or charcoal fires)
• Mt. Chocorua Forest Protection Area (No
camping, wood or charcoal fires, except
at Camp Penacook. At Jim Liberty Cabin
visitors may sleep inside the cabin but no
fires are allowed.)
• Rocky Gorge Scenic Area (No camping,
wood or charcoal fires)
The following restrictions apply to
each of the six Wildernesses on the
White Mountain National Forest:
Caribou-Speckled Mtn.
Great Gulf
Presidential/Dry River
Sandwich Range
Pemigewasset
Wild River
• No motorized equipment or mechanical
transport
• No storing of equipment, personal property,
or supplies, including geocaching and letter
boxing
• Hiking group size may not exceed 10 people,
and no more than 10 people may occupy any
designated or non-designated campsite
Additional regulations for the Presidential/
Dry River and Pemigewasset Wilderness:
• No camping, wood or charcoal fires within
200 feet of any trail except at designated
campsites
Additional regulations for the Great Gulf
Wilderness:
• No wood or charcoal fires at any location
• No camping within 1/4 mile of the Great
Gulf Trail between its junctions with the
Sphinx and Gulfside Trails.
• No camping within 200 feet of any trail
except at designated sites
The following restrictions apply
to the Cutler River Drainage
(Including Tuckerman and
Huntington Ravines)
• No camping except at the Harvard
Mountaineering Club Cabin (December 1
– March 31 only) and Hermit Lake Shelters
— Fee charged
• No wood or charcoal fires
Camping in the Alpine Zone
(where trees are 8 feet tall or less)
• No camping except on 2 or more feet of
snow
• No camping on frozen bodies of water
• No wood or charcoal fires
Please note that the above treeline areas of
the Cutler River Drainage (Tuckerman and
Huntington Ravines and the areas around
them including the Alpine Garden and East
Snowfields) are closed to camping regardless of
snow cover.


Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:17 pm
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Sovereign Woodsman
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Posts: 1442
Location: Canaan, NH
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Granite Guy wrote:
"TRAVEL AND CAMP ON
DURABLE SURFACES
Stay on the trail while hiking. Camp
at sites that have already been heavily
impacted (but be sure it’s a legal site),
or 200 feet from trails and water
sources. Avoid moderately impacted
sites where your visit could create
more damage."


Now comes the debate between "heavily" and "moderately" impacted sights. :? :wink:

I personally would like see people try their best to stay 200ft off of the trail. Everyone can benefit from that.


Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:55 pm
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Hiking Forums Are My Crack
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Location: Not Mass 8)
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Granite Guy wrote:
"TRAVEL AND CAMP ON
DURABLE SURFACES
Stay on the trail while hiking. Camp
at sites that have already been heavily
impacted (but be sure it’s a legal site),
or 200 feet from trails and water
sources. Avoid moderately impacted
sites where your visit could create
more damage."


This is very vague if you ask me. I still see nothing that says you can camp less than 200 feet from a trail or water. They need to define "legal". It almost contradicts itself.

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Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:37 pm
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200 feet AND heavily impacted would be directing people directly to the type of sites you found. I read it as one or the other but if it's the heavily impacted option it must also adhere to the additional trail and wilderness area specific regulations to be legal. That's the way I read it. I agree some clarification would be nice. The 200 foot rule was very easy to understand.


Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:46 pm
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Mountain Maestro
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Does anyone have an official statement confirming a universal 200 foot rule was ever in effect? the rules from March 2008 are basically the same as they are now with some of the specific roads and trails changed. So it's been like this for at least 3 years now.

I would presume that the inclusion of a 200 foot rule as a special regulation for certain areas means that it does not apply to areas not mentioned. I assume the rules work like most laws where everything is permitted until it is prohibited, rather than everything being forbidden until it is expressly allowed. The rules say nothing about backpacking in a top hat and tailcoat but I would guess that it is not a violation.


Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:18 pm
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The AMC guide says it in it's camping section so I always assumed it was the law but after rereading it it never actually says it's a law. Hmmmmm.


Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:59 pm
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